Wednesday, November 12, 2003
'Let's get rid of this guy,' Part II: Reader No. 1 responds to the Part I post about Eurotopia-U.S. relations just below. From Reader No. 1:
"Ignatieff sounds about right. My whole problem with the 'needless damage to America' argument goes back to the Robert Kagan thesis: US and Europe are in completely different places and all of the cajoling, handholding, sweet words from the US won't convince the 'old European' powers (other than UK and occasionally Spain and Italy) that they have to face up to the reality of evil in the world.
"I do believe that the handholding/cajoling/sweet words would cause Europeans to think slightly better of us as people (they love Clinton for his outreach) but it would have no impact on EU defense policy... Clinton was great with the therapeutics, not great with the bottom line (eg rooting out terrorists when he had a chance). My conclusion is that the leaders in the Bush adminstration didn't want to waste time playing the diplomatic charade (other than Powell who sorta had to) because they knew it wasn't going to lead anywhere. They were right that it wasn't going to lead France and Germany into the Coalition Of The Willing (a central and fradulent tenet of many anti-war arguments)...
"Kagan ended his book hoping for understanding between the 2 different camps (EU and US) of their respective views of the world. That still seems like a lot to hope for."
Hub Blog's response: Good points. But I still insist/'hope' people like Kagan are right about the 'hoping for understanding' part. My whole premise is that the Bushies have stopped caring about that hope. That's where he's losing a lot of us -- and I, for one, feel alienated from this presidency as a result. Mickey Kaus was right about the administration reaching out to people seemingly out of their orbit. (Of course, frothing Bush-backing conservatives will kick me in the teeth and accuse me of idealism -- while praising the president's Democracy in the Middle East Idealism as, well, a sign of idealism. ... )
Update - 11.13.03 -- The brilliant 'Bring 'em on' bragging seems to be bearing fruit, alas. (Via CSM warblog.)
"Ignatieff sounds about right. My whole problem with the 'needless damage to America' argument goes back to the Robert Kagan thesis: US and Europe are in completely different places and all of the cajoling, handholding, sweet words from the US won't convince the 'old European' powers (other than UK and occasionally Spain and Italy) that they have to face up to the reality of evil in the world.
"I do believe that the handholding/cajoling/sweet words would cause Europeans to think slightly better of us as people (they love Clinton for his outreach) but it would have no impact on EU defense policy... Clinton was great with the therapeutics, not great with the bottom line (eg rooting out terrorists when he had a chance). My conclusion is that the leaders in the Bush adminstration didn't want to waste time playing the diplomatic charade (other than Powell who sorta had to) because they knew it wasn't going to lead anywhere. They were right that it wasn't going to lead France and Germany into the Coalition Of The Willing (a central and fradulent tenet of many anti-war arguments)...
"Kagan ended his book hoping for understanding between the 2 different camps (EU and US) of their respective views of the world. That still seems like a lot to hope for."
Hub Blog's response: Good points. But I still insist/'hope' people like Kagan are right about the 'hoping for understanding' part. My whole premise is that the Bushies have stopped caring about that hope. That's where he's losing a lot of us -- and I, for one, feel alienated from this presidency as a result. Mickey Kaus was right about the administration reaching out to people seemingly out of their orbit. (Of course, frothing Bush-backing conservatives will kick me in the teeth and accuse me of idealism -- while praising the president's Democracy in the Middle East Idealism as, well, a sign of idealism. ... )
Update - 11.13.03 -- The brilliant 'Bring 'em on' bragging seems to be bearing fruit, alas. (Via CSM warblog.)
